While not trying to oversimplify this area of history and recognizing Paul’s presumptions, let’s get real with Jesus and talk about him like we would other historical figures of this time or other times. We will not oversimplify if we recognise Paul’s very different worldview which is in fact very alien to modern atheists or theists alike. Both sets of people will fail to understand Paul, our earliest reporter of Jesus. In fact using your atheistic or theistic framework will not unlock Jesus history. The only framework that will work is the now obsolete apocalyptic worldview. Simply put, this apocalyptic worldview shared by Jesus, his comparative Sign Prophet figures (as reported by Josephus) and also shared by Paul, divides history into two periods. The first is an age in which the people of God are oppressed. In the second period, God will intervene to save his people. For Jesus both ages are played out right here on earth- so nothing to do with what will happen after we die, Jesus hoped for a kingdom of God right here on earth. Once we read through the apocalyptic worldview of Paul and all the presumptions that entails, getting Paul wrong will no longer happen and we can recognise that these were people, people who still fought like cats and dogs as the white heat of the letter to the Galatians shows. In that letter Paul had said of the Judasizers that wanted what the Jerusalem leadership wanted (and not what Paul wanted – his version of the gospel) – the Judasizers insisted that those converts ‘in Christ’ to become like Jews and become circumcised. Paul exclaimed- “As for those agitators, I wish they would go the whole way and emasculate themselves!” (Gal. 5:12). This was an argument that boiled over at the food table in Antioch. Over thousands of generations, man has not evolved much above the monkey[1], will feel threatened over the smallest of things like what to do about the gentiles- as Theissen classed as the Gentile question.[2] Basically the argument over circumcision all had to do with what will happen to the gentiles in the eschaton. (The end of the first age). Certain passages from Isaiah show that these gentiles (non circumcised) will be destroyed (Isaiah 54:3) and other passages in Isaiah says the gentiles will not be destroyed (Isaiah 2:2-4; 25:6). These contradictory solutions to the gentile position at the eschaton within the same book is what caused the circumcision debate at this time. The exact same debate, (i. e. should Izates get circumcised or not) is recalled in Josephus Antiquities at the court of Adiabene (Josephus Ant. 20.38-47).
To get down to earth on this history with what people who are new to this area will call a weird worldview, (the newbies think Paul’s letters are weird) let’s just reproduce a conversation I had with my friend Peter Stanbridge, just discussing normal history where so many have overcomplicated this area.
Dave:
When you really dig into the stuff you could see that the likes of Theudas (one of Jesus’ comparable figures- a Sign Prophet) could just as easily ended up in the statues in all the churches all over the world. You can read about Jesus’ other comparable figures and what they hoped to achieve here. Theudas is a person who could have been just as easily revered – instead of crucifixion scenes, we would have beheading scenes depicted…
Peter:
So how was it that Jesus became the man? Given the fictional nature of the gospels, Paul’s spiritualisation version. Maybe the only link to the real Jesus if we had written stuff (apart from your reconstruction from Josephus et al) is if we had the James and other Pillars giving us their account. They would be the only ones with access to the historical Jesus. But then how did they see him given his failure as a prophet?
Dave:
Cognitive dissonance meant they did not accept Jesus as a failure, their visions caused by cognitive dissonance ensured God favored Jesus by raising him and this “vision Jesus” told them he was coming back. The survival of the Jesus history is really down to the likes of Marcion and Valentines picking up Paul’s letters. The letters Paul wrote as a missionary were probably the best that was out there- the guy was persuasive and adaptive. It didn’t succeed from the unbending James and Co, and never would have. It really was down to the wilier “bendy” Paul. How they got around Jesus’ failure was their own visions- they had visions of Jesus who told them themselves he was coming back. By god backing Jesus and raising him up “in their minds” meant all of a sudden he wasn’t a failure.
Peter:
There isn’t much left of the James stuff though. The NT has pretty well squashed it. Even in Matthew where the original must have been sympathetic. It’s hard to belief the “not one iota of the law passage” survived. But amazing bit of history. Pre temple destruction with so much wish for Romans to be beat. And post distraction and failure of jesus’s return all the contradictory stuff in NT shows. John’s realised eschatology, Luke not having an atonement based death, the catholicising of NT material, attempts to bring in John the Baptist, the Thomas school, forged Paul on behalf of catholic orthodoxy, Acts harmonising the Paul/Pillar conflicts. What a soup pot. If Paul pre-destruction one can see why the polemic still there. Post destruction one can see why James version was going to struggle. But still sufficient for Acts to harmonise. But by then it is really Peter. How did Peter become dominant over James? Maybe James had died?
Dave:
Peter was the active missionary- James was not, so Peter was seen as the dominant active figure and the literature wrote him up (even though polemically to keep him below Paul) to suppress James.
Peter:
Fascinating. Why the word “suppress”? That is of interest. For example as opposed to simply not doing anything with him simply because of the predominance of Peter over James? Is it because James was over active anti-Paul and pro Law?
Dave:
You can see with Eisenmans work, (the actual good part of Eisenmans scholarship as opposed to dating the scrolls) he shows Acts actually wrote James out.
As Eisenman pointed out in his book James the brother of Jesus, fiction does not try to write people out of their narratives and yet that is what happened in Acts.
“James is mentioned for the first time in Acts 12:17 as if he had been introduced before and is mentioned as the leader of the Jerusalem church in such an off hand way, that we the reader should know about him and would have if Acts had not been overwritten. Acts assumes we already knew who James was. Another James, James the brother of John was killed at the beginning of chapter 12 (decapitated) just before introduction of this James the Just and according to the epistles is brother of Jesus. (Cf Gal.2:12; 1:19).” [3]
As Painter said:
“The variety of ways in which the appointment of James is described suggests that the direct appointment of James by Jesus, a tradition found in the Nag Hammadi tractates, especially the Gospel of Thomas logon 12, and also in Gospel of the Hebrews and the Pseudo-Clementines is being opposed. There is no [non orthodox] tradition in which the risen Jesus authorizes a successor other than James.” [4]
Peter:
I think there is a lot of fiction in Acts. But that doesn’t make the characters fiction or the tensions it irons out. Eg the speeches are fiction and as Eisenman himself has pointed out the stoning of Stephen is fiction probably/possibly based on someone else. The we passages could be Homeric etc etc. The stuff on the early church all fiction but probably based on what was either remembered or believed about them (giving up property etc).
Dave:
Acts or the gospels don’t turn the historicity question one way or the other, the genre of the gospels and Acts would work on either a historical or fictional character.[5] What turns the dial to historicity is the way Paul talks about Jesus in the letters- only actual people resurrect to second temple Jews. Jesus was the “first fruits” already resurrected according to Paul (1 Cor. 15:20).
Peter:
Well the blanket statement doesn’t work. It seems like in it you are referring to the historical Jesus not historical in general. So we have this idea that there is an historical Jesus but apart from this fact pretty much all of acts is fiction and except things it’s author includes (like there is a Peter and Paul who are evangelists) but everything he has them do is fictional (but maybe in some cases at least for Paul on some of the actual journeys he says he took in his letters). I think Paul’s conversion stories in Acts (3 of them) is likely to be fictionalised accounts based on what Paul says on his letters. So when we say something is history or historical we have to be very careful in each case to say which thing we are speaking about. There is a similar problem in philosophy with respect to Realism/nominalism. When someone says they or someone is a realist/nominalist, I always say with respect to what are you are realist/nominalist and is it an ontological or epistemological or both realism/nominalism.
Dave:
Yes that’s what I meant taking Acts/gospel on their own. It is only where they seem to be using the letters as a source that we get actual history, outside of that there is no way of verifying. Now because we do have the actual letters that changes the way we can use the gospels. It changes our knowledge that the gospels do contain historical data, but it is extremely difficult to get the data out. What we can do in that case is take some blunt tools such as re-occurrence theme (where things happen over and over again) (see Allison)[6] and to have some idea of historical data a similar method of multiple attestation (see Ehrman)[7]can be used. [Allison method consisted of what kept re-occurring in the gospels more than likely came from historical sources told in a literal and theological way in the gospels. Ehrman called his method multiple attestation, where things are mentioned in multiple gospels or letters.] These methods tell us how the ancients understood Jesus (such as an apocalyptic prophet) and Josephus tells us there was a certain class of these men and modern scholars class them as Sign Prophets. That’s how to get basic history done.
Since I wrote this blog I have discovered that memory studies are much more successful extracting history from the gospels and have released two papers on this:
Jesus Realpolitik, JHC forthcoming
“Memory studies and the realpolitik in John’s Gospel (memories we can determine from Josephus)” In Anderson, Just and Thatcher (eds) John, Jesus and History, vol 7 forthcoming.
Actually a third paper is in the pipeline- “Sign Prophet Hypothesis for Jesus”, JHC 20.2 (2025) now out!
[1] Ian Tattersall, The Monkey in the Mirror: Essays on the Science of What Makes Us Human.
[2] Matthew Theissen Paul and the Gentile Problem.
[3] Robert Eisenman, James the brother of Jesus, ch.6.
[4] Painter, Just James, p.114.
[5] To see the level of education required to write a gospel see Helen Bond, The First Biography of Jesus. To see Greek literature techniques used to apotheosis Jesus such as the empty tomb see Richard Miller, Resurrection and Reception in Early Christianity, Routledge, 2015. To see that the gospels are products of Roman book culture see Robyn Faith Walsh, The Origins of Early Christian Literature, Contextualizing the New Testament within Greco-Roman Literary Culture, Cambridge, 2021; To see the gospels using memises and thus creating a fictional nature, see Dennis MacDonald, The Homeric Epics and the Gospel of Mark, Yale, 2010.
[6] Dale Allison, Jesus of Nazareth, Millenarian Prophet
[7] Bart Ehrman, Jesus, Apocalyptic prophet of the new millennium









