Talmud in dialogue with Jesus

“The historicity of Jesus as a heretic teacher of Jewish law is established beyond doubt by the testimony of his disciple Jacob of Kephar Sekhanjah-a man unknown to Christian sources­ transmitted through the rabbis ‘Eli’ezer b. Hyrkanos and ‘Aqiba (A.D. 110), both of the latter witnesses being decidedly hostile to Christianity. The execution of one ‘Christus’ by the Roman governor Pilate under Tiberius, as a criminal and founder of a band of conspirators hostile to the whole human race, is established thanks to the testimony of Tacitus. The nature of the Roman charges against Jesus is clear, first from Pilate’s inscription on the cross, second from the attacks of Celsus and Sossianus Hierocles. Jesus was considered a rebel king proclaimed by the Jews-that is, legally, a robber chief, a leader of bandits armed against the safety of the Roman empire. His ascendency over his following was attributed to the performing of sham miracles by magical arts, as well as to a sophistic, i.e. demagogical, power of oratory. The remains of anti-Christian literature prove that the opponents of Christianity described him as a fomenter of rebellion, a sorcerer, a demagogue, a rebel and a robber chief.”

Robert Eisler, The Messiah Jesus and John the Baptist,p.20

We will deal with the Jacob of Kephar Sekhanjah passages last but first we will go through all the other mentions of “Jesus” in the Talmud [1] most of these mentions were about different figures with the exception of the Jacob passage but they were written as counter narratives to the gospels so well worth a look.

Yeshu ben Pandera/ben Stada.

Babylonian Shabbat 104b, b. Sanhedrin 67a, Tosefta Shab 11:15

“R. Eliezer ask: “But did not Ben Stada bring forth witchcraft from Egypt by means of scratches/tattoos (biseritah) upon his flesh?” All three versions the Sages [ie versions from the Talmud named above] dismiss R. Eliezer’s objection with the counterargument that Ben Satra/Stada was a fool and that they would not let one fool’s behavior influence the implementation of Sabbath laws ( cannot write letters including tattoos on the Sabbath).”

The rabbis call him a fool giving the family background:

(Was he) the son of Stada (and not on the contrary) the son of Pandera?

Said Rav Hisda: the husband was Stada, (and) the cohabiter/lover was Pandera.

(But was not) the husband Pappos ben Yehuda and rather his mother Stada.

His mother was [Miriam],10 (the woman who) let (her) women’s [hair] grow long

This is as they say about her in Pumbeditha: This one turned away from (was unfaithful to) her husband.

The Talmud blends two different traditions, son of Stada and son of Pandera by putting both traditions into a discourse between different Rabbi. 

This was a perfect polemic to the New Testament Jesus as this “Ben Stada”, like Jesus, was executed on the eve of Passover (cf. John19:14).

According to the Rabbi, Jesus was not born from a virgin, as his followers claimed, but out of wedlock, the son of a whore and her lover, a Mamzer, therefore, he could not be the Messiah of Davidic descent, let alone the Son of God.

It’s unlikely that this Ben Stada was Jesus, but the Talmud sure made him sound like a polemic of Jesus.

Yeshu the sorcerer.

Babylonian Talmud Sanhedrin43a:

“On the eve of the Passover Yeshu was hanged. For forty days before the execution took place, a herald went forth and cried, ‘He is going forth to be stoned because he has practised sorcery and enticed Israel to apostacy. Any one who can say anything in his favour, let him come forward and plead on his behalf.’ But since nothing was brought forward in his favour he was hanged on the eve of the Passover!”

Many scholars today believe this particular passage is about Jesus of Nazareth as Jesus of the gospels corresponds well with Yeshu Ha Notzri ( Jesus the Nazorean) from this passage. 

Yeshu ha-Notzri was a member of a Jewish sect called “Notzrim”. He was charged with practicing sorcery and tried by the Sanhedrin. For 40 days a town crier was sent out into the streets of Jerusalem asking if anyone would come forth and speak in his defense. When no one came, he was executed; he was hanged on the eve of Passover. He apparently also had five disciples. In this passage, there is no denial of Jewish involvement in this “Jesus’s” trial; the Jews were in control of the whole process right down to the “hanging” (a euphemism for crucifixion).

This is the closest to the gospel versions in that Jesus has disciples and got crucified for practicing magic. This passage, written in the 3rd century CE seems to be an inner Jewish explanation of how a Jesus of Nazareth figure got crucified while different from the synoptic gospels. Execution occurred on the eve of the Passover, and the claim of being a miracle worker (or magician as his detractors would describe miracles) all agree; if Schafer is right, this passage has a major anachronism as the Sanhedrin has no power to execute criminals in the 30’s CE. Another anachronism was that Jesus was executed according to Rabbinic law (stoning), but it also has the historically accurate Roman law (crucifixion or hanging from a tree). Other scholars think this passage was based in the Hasmonean period due to the execution method. That is probably a correct assessment.

The writer of this passage also wishes to show that all Yeshu’s five disciples were executed also for idolatry soon after Yeshu was executed.

It deals with the trial of Yeshu’s five disciples who have been accused of idolatry.

Each disciple, in his turn, eruditely employs a droll interpretation of an appropriate text taken from the Tanakh in order to exonerate himself. However, the court (equally knowledgeable and quite determined to see each of these men receive the death penalty), rapidly responds with equal sharpness of wit.

“It is taught: Yeshu had five disciples – Matai, Nekai, Netzer, Buni, and Todah.

They brought Matai [before the judges]. He said to them: Will Matai be killed? It is written (Psalm 42:2) “When [Matai] shall (I) come and appear before G-d.”

They said to him: Yes, Matai will be killed as it is written (Psalm 41:5) “When [Matai] shall (he) die and his name perish.”

They brought Nekai. He said to them: Will Nekai be killed? It is written (Exodus 23: 7) “The innocent [Naki] and the righteous you shall not slay.” They said to him: Yes, Nekai will be killed as it is written (Psalm 10:8) “In secret places he slays the innocent [Naki].”

They brought Netzer. He said to them: Will Netzer be killed? It is written (Is. 11: 1) “A branch [Netzer] shall spring up from his roots.”

They said to him: Yes, Netzer will be killed as it is written (Is. 14: 19) “You are cast forth out of your grave like an abominable branch [Netzer].”

They brought Buni. He said to them: Will Buni be killed? It is written (Exodus 4: 22) “My son [Beni], my firstborn, Israel.”

They said to him: Yes, Buni will be killed as it is written (Exodus 4: 23) “Behold, I slay your son [Bincha] your firstborn.”

They brought Todah. He said to them: Will Todah be killed? It is written (Psalm 100: 1) “A Psalm for thanksgiving [Todah].”

They said to him: Yes, Todah will be killed as it is written (Psalm 50: 23) “Whoever sacrifices thanksgiving [Todah] honours me.”

As seen from here, each and everyone knows the Tanakh inside out. This and the Dead Sea Scrolls show you that most narratives were written with biblical metaphors in mind. It shows you that the gospels were not about the narrative but the biblical metaphors. This, in turn, helps us to unlock who this historical Jesus was. In chapter 7 of Schafer’s book, Jesus in the Talmud shows how the judges’ answers are each a metaphor refuting the claims of the gospels such as resurrection, etc.

Yeshu the student. (“Yeshu of Bethlehem”).

Yeshu a disciple of R. Jehoshu’ah b. Perahja.

Babylonian Talmud Sanhedrin 107b, Sotah 47a(cf Jerusalem Talmud Sanhedrin23c):

The Yeshu ha’Notzri (Jesus the Nazorean) was dead 100 years before Jesus of Nazareth.of the gospels. The King Yannai (King Jannaeus) mentioned here is the Hasmonean king Alexander, who ruled from 103 until 76 BCE. Pharisaic rabbis were persecuted sometime in or after 93 BCE.  Both Josephus (Antiquities 13:14:2) and Qumranic Pesher Nahum reflect this civil war with the Pharisees where 800 of them were crucified by King Alexander.  At this time, a Jerusalem-based Pharisee, Rabbi Yehoshua ben Perachiah and his student Yeshu haNotzri (ישו הנצרי) fled to Alexandria to protect themselves. Here is the passage-

“What was the incident with Yehoshua b. Perahya? When King Yannai killed the rabbis, R. Yehoshua b. Perahya fled to Egyptian Alexandria. When there was peace, Shimon b. Shetah sent (the following message):

From Jerusalem, the Holy City, to you, Alexandria in Egypt. O my sister, my husband dwells in your midst, and I remain desolate!”

He [Yehoshua b. Perahya] arose, went and found himself in a certain inn. They paid him great respect. He said: “How beautiful is this inn/innkeeper (akhsanya)!” He [one of his disciples/Jesus] said: “Rabbi, her eyes are narrow.” He [Yehoshua b. Perahya] replied: “(You) wicked (student), do you occupy yourself with such (a thought)?!” He sounded 400 Shofar blasts and excommunicated him.

He [the disciple] came before him [the rabbi] several times (and) said to him: “Receive me!”, but he [Yehoshua b. Perahya] refused to take notice. One day, while he [Yehoshua b. Perahya] was reciting the Shema, he [the disciple] came (again) before him. (This time) he [Yehoshua b. Perahya] wanted to receive him (and) made a sign to him with his hand. But he [the disciple] thought that he [Yehoshua b. Perahya] was again repelling him. He [the disciple] went, set up a brick and worshipped it. He [Yehoshua b. Perahya] said to him [the student]: “Repent!”, (but) he answered him: “Thus have I learned from you: Whoever sins and causes others to sin, is deprived of the power of doing penitence.”

The master said: “Jesus the Nazarene practiced magic and deceived and led Israel astray.”

Of particular note, in the earliest gospel traditions, Jesus is seen as being a Nazorean ( Mark14:67) and the Jesus movement were also seen as the Nazoreans (Acts24:5). Some traditions from this earlier “Yeshu of Bethlehem” or the “covered up” minor insurrectionist Jesus of Nazareth of the gospels may have got conflated over time. Of course it is the gospel of Matthew that uses the cover up that Jesus was from Nazareth.

Matthew 2:22-23:”Having been warned in a dream, he withdrew to the district of Galilee, 23 and he went and lived in a town called Nazareth. So was fulfilled what was said through the prophets, that he would be called a Nazarene.”

       The reason assigned is unreal. Nowhere is it spoken through the prophets, “He shall be called Nazarene,” nor anything nearly equivalent.

It had to be explained some way, and the least objectionable way was to derive it from a place of early residence. Accordingly, this datum of childhood in Nazareth.

To Matthew he could not bear that Jesus was just one of the nazoreans, as he thought of Jesus being a god he could no longer be just one of the group. Therefore Matthew changed the meaning of a geographical location instead of a religious group. 

    According to the Talmud this group of Nazoreans were around since 100BCE. It shows a figure of Yeshu ha-Notzri who was a member of a Jewish sect called “Notzrim” around 100 BCE.

Yeshu Ha-Notzri/ben Pantiri, the healer:

Babylonian Avodah Zarah 27b, 28a; 16b-17a; y.Shabbat14d; Palestinian Tosepta

t.Hullen2.22-23;(AKA Tosefta Chullin 2:22-23)

While the rest of the passages in the Talmud were only mere counter narratives of the gospel Jesus (or if people could get into their heads, there were lots of characters just like Jesus in the Talmud) the traditions held in these particular passages are thought to be two generations removed from an eyewitness account of the historical Jesus. 

Jacob of the hamlet of Sekhanjah, (Kephar Sekhanjah) says that in his youth he had heard the following from the mouth of his teacher, Yeshu Ha-notzri, i.e. the Nazorean, [Ha-Notzri is in the Avodah passages but the same story and tradition, he is named Ben Pantiri in the Tosefta passage]

He had heard Jesus make a sharp verbal attack on the temple of Jerusalem suggesting that it appeared to him totally defiled by an unworthy priesthood. (Would the Temple cleansing in the gospels be a metaphor of this?) 

He told R. ‘Eli’ezer who himself lived through the destruction of the Temple in 70CE, who in turn as old man, told it to R. ‘Aqiba in the year 110CE.

R. ‘Eli’ezer was telling this story to R. ‘Aqiba in connexion with an embarrassing problem concocted by himself. “The transmission of the testimony of an eye-witness who saw and heard Jesus is then known in its exact filiation, comprising no more than two generations…..

This Jesus hated by the rabbis as an agitator and an heretic, did live and interpreted the law in an unorthodox spirit, and that certain sayings of his, in close agreement with passages of the same tendency in the Gospels, were current for some time both among his adherents and among his opponents, and maintained themselves with a tenacity which is typical of Jewish oral tradition.” [2].

Of all the Yeshu passages, these are the ones that fit the chronology, they also name Jesus as son of Pantera (Ben Pantiri) in the Tosefta passage. These same traditions were picked up by Celsus in the second century. It is barely a mention of Jesus and not really about him but preserves the tradition that Jesus had a healing ministry.

In b.Avodah Zarah 16b-17a warn Jews to have nothing to do with a minim ( i.e. heretics, usually meant to be Christians). They are to stay away from the healings by the minim and healings done in the name of Jesus the Nazorean. Rabbi Elizer is acquitted of associating with the minim, and is asked by Rabbi Akiba if he passed on any Christian teachings. [We date this passage to early 2nd century because of Rabbi Akiba]

Rabbi Eliezer Ben Hyrcanus reminisces about Jacob of Shiknim, a follower of Jesus the Nszorean and his retelling of Yeshu’s teachings. 

Rabbi Eliezer said to him: Akiva, you are right, as you have reminded me that once I was walking in the upper marketplace of Tzippori, [or Sepphoris, 6 kilometers north-northwest of Nazareth] and I found a man who was one of the students of Yeshu Ha Notzri and his name was Ya’akov of Kefar Sekhanya. 

[R. Eliezer heard this story from Jacob of Kephar Sekhanjah talking about his teacher Yeshu Ha-Notzri (or Ben Pantiri depending on the MSS), in the streets of Sepphoris].

He said to me: It is written in your Torah: “You shall not bring the payment to a prostitute, or the price of a dog, into the house of the Lord your God” (Deuteronomy 23:19). What is the halakha: Is it permitted to make from the payment to a prostitute for services rendered a bathroom for a High Priest in the Temple? And I said nothing to him in response.

[ And here is Jesus’ teaching]:

He said to me: Yeshu Ben Pantiri taught me the following: It is permitted, as derived from the verse: “For of the payment to a prostitute she has gathered them, and to the payment to a prostitute they shall return” (Micah 1:7). Since the coins came from a place of filth, let them go to a place of filth and be used to build a bathroom.”

Rabbi Eliezer then recalled an incident in the marketplace in Zippori where he met one of the students of Yeshu Ben Pantera who asked him whether an ‘etnan zonah’ – payment made to a prostitute – could be used to build a bathroom in the Temple for the kohen gadol, given that the Torah forbids bringing such money to the Temple (see Devarim 23:19). Although Rabbi Eliezer did not respond to Yeshu’s student, he did admit to having enjoyed the teaching that the student related in Yeshu’s name, which argues based on a wordplay in the passage in Michah (1:7) that such money would appropriately be spent in an unclean place.

In b.Avodah Zarah 27b/ Palestinian Tosepta t.Hullen2.22-23, also warn against a minim healing for a snakebite, don’t take the risk. Here again Jacob of Shiknim comes to heal in the name of Jesus son of Pantera. The Rabbis were pleased that Ben Dama died and was not polluted by the healing of Jesus.

Both Justin Martyr and Origen in parallel with this last set of passages in the Talmud attest to the healing/ magic (depending which way you look at it) ministry of Jesus as reported in the synoptics.

Justin Martyr reports what the Jewish think, “By restoring the dead to life, he compelled the men of that day to recognize him. Yet though they [the Jews] witnessed these miraculous deeds with their own eyes, they attributed them to magical art; indeed, they dared to call him a magician (magos), a deceiver of the people (laoplanos)” ~ Justin, Dialogue, 69:6f.

One of the best-preserved pagan critics of Christianity is the Greek philosopher Celsus; his book On True Doctrine is preserved in generous measure by church father Origen in his own work Contra Celsium. He seems to have picked up Jewish anti-Christian polemic traditions and those of the Ben Pantera.

“he [Jesus] came from a Jewish village and from a poor country woman who earned her living by spinning. He [the Jew] says that she was driven out by her husband, who was a carpenter by trade, as she was convicted of adultery. Then he says that after she had been driven out by her husband and while she was wandering about in a disgraceful way she secretly gave birth to Jesus. And he says that because he [Jesus] was poor he hired himself out as a workman in Egypt, and there tried his hand at certain magical powers on which the Egyptians pride themselves; he returned full of conceit, because of these powers, and on account of them gave himself the title of God”  ~ Origen, Contra Celsum I:28;

And here Celsus repeats these allegations:

“Let us return, however, to the words put into the mouth of the Jew, where the mother of Jesus is described as having been turned out by the carpenter who was betrothed to her, as she had been convicted of adultery and had a child by a certain soldier named Panthera (Panthe ̄ra) ~ ibid. I:32. See also Eusebius, Eclogae propheticae III:10

Looks like Celsus in the second century and the Talmud in the fourth century have drawn on similar Jewish sources. We can see here that Celsus does not pick up all his knowledge about Jesus from the gospels. Panthera is obviously a separate Jewish tradition. It is Celsus that says this is the same Jesus of the gospels, the Talmud is silent on this.

Magic in the Talmud.

Depending if you’re a biased Jesus supporter or a Jewish or Pagan detractor, Jesus healings would be described as miracles by his protagonists and like magic by his detractors. For magic is simply the flip side of miracles, just different perspectives of the same actions.

As church fathers see Simon Magus (Simon the Magician) as an arch-heretic who claimed to be the son of god and deceived his followers with magic, so too the Jews saw Jesus’ miracles as magic to mislead the people.

Some Jewish polemics are even contained in the gospels about seeing the source of Jesus miracles is the demon Beelzebul.

Pharisees and scribes accused Jesus, saying, “It is only by Beelzebul, the prince of demons, that this man casts out demons” (Matthew 12:24).

Also in as seen in Luke 11:19 “Now if I drive out demons by Beelzebul, by whom do your followers drive them out? So then, they will be your judges.”

There are many verses in the gospels where the magical traits have been edited out. One example is in Mark 5, where Jesus asks the demon his name. This happens in magic, where you find out the name and then order the demon out. Mark only preserves the question and not the exorcism proper. This, in turn, makes the question useless. The magic has been edited out here. Matthew 8:29 edited out the question altogether. Such cuttings have left fossils of magical exorcisms that are now only being recognised (see Hull, Hellenistic Magic; Fridrichsen, The Problem of Miracle in Primitive Christianity; Morton Smith, Jesus the Magician; Helen Ingram, Dragging Down Heaven: Jesus as Magician and Manipulator of Spirits in the Gospels).

The healing methods of Jesus, the spitting on the tongue of the mute, spitting on the ground to make mud to put on the eyes of the blind, this all imitates magic. The casting out of demons as demonstrated in the gospels fits the whole magic exorcism and even having visions, like the temptations in the desert fits shamonistic antics.

In the Babylonian, Talmud Jesus is often seen as a magician.

Shabbet104b “Did not Ben Stada bring witchcraft with him from Egypt in a cut that was on his skin?”

Sanhedrin43a Jesus is accused of at his trial of practicing sorcery and instigated (hesit) and seduced (hediah) Israel.

Justin also put these words into his literary construct of a Jew called Typho

“But Christ — if He has indeed been born, and exists anywhere — is unknown, and does not even know Himself, and has no power until Elias come to anoint Him, and make Him manifest to all. And you, having accepted a groundless report, invent a Christ for yourselves, and for his sake are inconsiderately perishing.”~ Justin Martyr, Dialogue, ch8.

Typho is just saying a messiah was not born, as Jews don’t believe a messiah was born, it’s nothing to do with Jesus per se. He acknowledges an insignificant historical character. He accuses Christians of “inventing” their own type of Christ. Even the phrase “you … invent a Christ”,  suggests that Trypho is talking of “someone in the capacity of the promised Messiah”. He is, perhaps voicing the same thought as some of the contemporaries of Jesus, while addressing him, entertained: “we know where this man is from; when the Messiah comes, no one will know where he is from.” (Jn 7:27). You cannot address a myth, but a real person of flesh and blood.

Conclusion

As Peter Schafer says in his book Jesus in the Talmud, on page 48, “As far as the stories about Jesus and his followers are concerned, they indeed reveal some knowledge of the Christian sect and of its hero, and this knowledge is not just a distorted and vague hodgepodge of this and that, but a well-designed attack against what the rabbis experienced as the reality of the Jewish-Christian message.” The Jewish Christian relationship was very strained, all these polemic attacks culminated in the Toledot Yeshu ( an anti-gospel written by Jews centuries later) just shows the extent of the hatred. Even the name Yeshu it was suggested in the Toledot Yeshu was an acronym for “may his name and memory be obliterated”. Would you not think that if Jesus did not exist, that the Jews would have used this. This all increases the probability that Jesus was indeed a historical figure. As Van Voost said, “Yet if anyone in the ancient world had a reason to dislike the Christian faith, it was the rabbis. To argue successfully that Jesus never existed but was a creation of early Christians would have been the most effective polemic against Christianity … all Jewish sources treated Jesus as a fully historical person … the rabbis and the later Toldot Yeshu used the real events of Jesus’ life against him” [3].

My own thinking is that there were so many messiah type figures as attested in the Talmud, Patristics, the DSS and Josephus Works that the Orthodox had to put the following in the Nicean creed- no it was our guy that was crucified and “suffered under Pontus Pilate”, and not all those other guys! In that creed, you can trace every statement in it back to a christian (insider) group that was claiming different. It shows there were competing claims from the beginning. Even the synoptics report other messiah figures, Matthew 24:4-6, 24; Mark 13:5, 21-22; and Luke 21:3. For some this would indicate the amalgam theory, that Jesus’ story came from many different messianic types. The amalgam theory is plausible but if you apply Occam’s razor, that this movement sparked from one community at first, others may have amalgamated later.

I think this whole of Christianity originated from one community’s memories of an old war hero (sanitized of course). In thinking back other messianic figures stories got amalgamated to Jesus’ story.

FOOTNOTES:

[1] The Talmud (a summary of Oral Law consisting of the Mishnah ie Law and Gemarah ie commentary on law).

[2] Robert Eisler, The Messiah Jesus and John the Baptist 1931,(English Translation), p.8-9.

[3] Van Voost, Jesus outside the New Testament, p.133-4.

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SOURCES:

Peter Schafer, Jesus in the Talmud. 2007.

James Tabor, The Jesus Dynasty, ch3.

Adin Stiensaltz, The Essential Talmud.

Darrell L. Bock, Studying the Historical Jesus: A Guide to Sources and Methods 2002, 58-63.

NPL Allen, Clarifying the Scope of Pre-5th Century C.E. Christian Interpolation in Josephus’ Antiquitates Judaica (c. 94 C.E.), 103-129.

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